Stubbed TOE

As you’ll have noticed from our Friday Update we are gearing up for an open test without TOEs. While we are making contingency plans for a 1.26 without TOEs, that’s not the plan. I’ve simply had far more of my time taken up by operational work (working on CTHL/lag/etc issues) than we’d budgeted for; some of the work coming out of that is sitting, waiting to be made use of, but its tied to 1.26. And of course, until we get it released, I’m bleeding that steady portion of operational time out of my dev schedule.

Our last spec for this implementation has simplified a lot of systems and solved a lot of the issues that were leaving us unsure about the spec – one of the biggest of those being, as I’ve mentioned before, how to do “support” brigades: the ability to spawn a rifleman at an airfield to defend against cappers. None of the obvious solutions are practical and I promise you that the solution you just thought of is fairly obvious ;) That one too. Give up.

So far 1.26 isn’t laden with good stuff, it has some of Jaeger’s work and some performance smoothing (stutter reduction – in my case, elimination).

I honestly can’t, at this time, say whether I think TOEs will make 1.26 or if production will go for an early 1.26 release with a short development cycle for 1.27 with TOEs as the primary, if not only, feature.


I was just about to unsub before I read this. I’m still thinking about it.

I did yesterday, you may have a myriad of reasons at CRS kfsone but none of them are really cutting it for me anymore.

I’ll be back when TOEs and mortars are in and maybe some graphics improvements.

Sorry to see you go, Trooper. At the end of the day, the root problem is there’s one of me. Put me on a major “cave” project like TOEs, and there’s no-one else to solve CTHL issues or deal with cheating or fix whatever issue it is the HCs and players have whipped themselves into a frenzy of “must have this now”.

And while players are quick to say “oh but you’ve been working on that for X long” – it needs saying that that has been the standard line from the community in general since we started trying to develop TOEs.

The first few times we embarked and TOEs and got yanked off was a direct result of player uproar making it all the way to the CEO and causing him to yank TOEs as a priority. You (the plural, general, not Trooper specifically) may not have been the one to do it, but that’s the deck we were dealt.

By the time I finally managed to start yelling back as loudly and keep us on track, the TOE design we had was absolutely no use, and the new design needed more ground work to make it happen – or we’d have to throw out all the stuff we’d been strongarmed into adding in the previous months. That’s just not a viable option.

It really doesn’t matter what you say anymore. You told me in particular that they were going into beta in the beginning of January the last time you delayed them. You acted like I was out to lunch for calling it a delay. I wish that was the only lie. In a month it will be a year since they were announced for the “Next patch.” At that point they were already 3 years late.

Your like a cousin who keeps saying that he’s going to clean up his act, and then asks for some money to borrow. A point comes where it doesn’t matter what the excuse is, you just can’t facilitate him anymore.

well, good riddance.

You talk like you’re a shareholder or something, FFS! You are absolutely NOT! You pay to play the game as it is, and if you’re not happy with it as it is then stop paying and go away. Its not CRS’s fault, or KFS’S for that mattter, that you pay now for what you hope the game will be in the future.

KFS, its encouraging that you guys don’t let meatheads like this keep you guys from being so dedicated.

Keep pushing!


Bad form nhorning. You shouldn’t use this space to vent on Kfs.

Disappointed to hear this.

Yes, there is only one of you. I can understand how hard it can be to redo netcode for UDP and make it actually reliable. I’m not sure I know about the “uproars” (numbers imbalance maybe?) But CTHLs got to be a priority. I’m trying to understand (and keep my sub), but it gets harder and harder when we keep being told its coming “Next patch” and end-up being disappointed again.

These “uproars” concern me though. Just who is making them? The vocal minority in the forums? HC officers? Some guy who has Gophur’s ear?

Fair enough, nh; although it’s funny because I recently described you to someone as the sibling you ask to help you pay off a loan, and they happily reach into their wallet and hand you exactly enough to cover just the installment-interest payment.

True story, too.

And seriously, you underline one of the reasons why Mo always told me the blog was a bad idea. I can out honest the pope here, but all it takes is one doubter and I might as well just be pumping the company line.

“the last time you delayed them”

TOEs haven’t been delayed, they haven’t been finished. We don’t have IBM style program specs with flowcharts and PODs. Part of being an operating-developer is that we have to take outline specifications, draw summary specs and then try to build that. That leaves huge amounts of unknowns.

And more to the point, there is only one person here who can and does work on the host systems. That’s also the same person who has to operate the host systems – doing things like patches, etc, etc.

The trouble is, I’ve been on the verge of thinking I had TOEs ready to go. Clearly you’ve read those blog entries. Unfortunately you seem to have skipped the others where I’ve outlined the perils and woes of that development track.

Anyway, I’m going to have whats left of my Saturday off.

[edit: Oh, and the last two paras were meant to sound aproximately apologetic]

Kfsone: Although I may not sound like it, I really do feel for you. I would hate to be in your position.

Darkpath: What do you think this is supposed to be? his personal support group? So he can come on here and type “killer was mean” and we say “There, there, we still love you.”

Yeah I was a bit harsh saying he was telling lies. Thats not true, I think he has been honest in that he says what he believes is actually happening at any given moment. However, I also think he may also want to know how we honestly feel as well. His post here DID just barely stop me from unsubbing, and I made that post at that moment in time.

Posts like that will be more helpful to him in the long run than a n endless stream of “hang in there man, were pulling for you.”

Surpringly NH, you appear to have a vastly overestimated sense of your importance.

I’m also interested. Who were these players in an uproar about the introduction of ToEs? I thought there were more of us in an uproar that they haven’t been introduced yet. I hate to say it but it seems CRS can be very selective about what ‘player uproar’ it listens to.

nh: I think the one thing that occasionally pervents people from reading beyond small parts of some of your posts is the implication that there is some kind of conspiracy (you’ve referred to me in ‘the political’ at least a couple of times). If only.

TOEs made it to the top, and right now their timely delivery is my bailiwick. Of course, so is the other stuff, but I also haven’t really fixed that. So I have frustration-and-frustration on both fronts. Never mind that I’m clearly starting to make relatively obvious mistakes (cf compiler differences)

I am to drunk right now to reply in any concievable manner. But, I don’t think there is a conspiracy.

Even if I see some players of my community ( french speaking community ) unsub this month, I remain faithful to WWIIOL , CRS is on hard way today because they need to REdo lot of features ( as unity II )and has fews ressource to make developpment like TOE or news toys or improve gameplay.
Even if I think the work regarding squad Tools is not a priority and some thing about unbalance should be more efficient to keep subcribers , I continue to subcribe because CRS need us to made our dream game and even if for this half year there is no realy big news , and things seem unchanging is not the moment to stop our support at this game.
I hope after the ground work for unity II will be done , the game will be able to develop

So uh, that was a pretty quick transition between “We still intend to have them done but we are making contingency plans.” To “They will not be in this version.”

What was that, a week?

Your surprise at that betrays your ignorance of IT, and how easily it can go off the rails.

Can’t say I blame the producers; they need to get a client patch out very soon. They haven’t delayed TOEs, they haven’t stalled them, haven’t allocated me to other work. The TOE code just does not work right now and I’m pissing away manhours trying to isolate the cause. It could just be a problem with the version of the libraries we’re using.

In the next week we’re going to upgrade our development server cluster and see if the problem goes away. But even if that does fix it, there’s still code to be written to finish the actual task, so its not unreasonable for production to decide its time to start preparing the players for the worst rather than allowing me to continue saying “almost there”.

I thought the odd thing about the comment was “that was a pretty quick transition”.

I develop products and invent things…not software, physical stuff. My observation of hundreds of other technical individuals over the past few decades has been that decisions usually take five minutes–long enough for a calculation or a measurement–or maybe as long as a meeting if you have to break some bad news to your superiors or several of you have to balance conflicting concerns. The whole “dawning realization over an extended period” concept is the kind of invention that would originate with imaginative but naive writers.

Exactly, JWilly. I can’t even think of the number of times something that should be trivial has been suddenly exposed to be problematic, and thus the fixed deadline can’t be reached for that item.

The producers then have a choice – push back the deadline, or meet the deadline without that item.

Given the hefty performance improvements from Jaeger’s code, they don’t want to wait on releasing that to the public. Yes, there’s a “beta EXE” people can use, but a huge number of people are also refusing to use that no matter how many others say it’s good, unless it’s formally released.

Hell, a massive project I was tangentially involved in was supposed to hit pilot in February 2006, and phase 1 three months after that. Pilot actually went live in August 2006, and phase 1 just went live a month ago. This was a project with six hundred developers, and clear separation between operations and development which CRS cannot afford (so Oli gets yanked from dev to ops whenever ops needs him, as is correct) yet even a project of that scope was delayed by the need to operationally support pilot while phase 1 was being developed. Now, that wasn’t the only cause of the delay, but it was a contributing factor.

What to do about CTHL, in 1.27 ?

Tried activating Netcode2 beta…. No luck there…

Tried unistalling QoS on network connections…. Worked for about 10 minute… But, now still CTHL after 30 secs in game.

No bad memory dimms on my computer….. Other rig has no CTHL problems….

What to do, what to do….


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