Oplade, Aachen… Battle!

Dang it. I mean’t to log in for a little bit and got totally sucked in by the fight at Oplade. Was a great fight and we managed to take (retake?) the town (yes, I was playing Axis)

Our missions had some excellent mobile spawns set up, and when they got endangered, they had replacements or they undeployed the vehicle and repositioned. Finally we were there on the edge of town.

I was going to log, but a friend asked me for to give him a hand over at Aachen capping a tough depot. I spawned in and we had a great little setup. I can’t believe how long it took the Allies to spot our MSP since they continually ran past it.

Aachen is being pitted against 5 enemy towns, but the enemy seems to be over confident and we’re mowing them down. Of course, then someone has to go and start cheating so I’ve been in GM mode for the last half hour. Now I get to go back to fighting. It looks like this one is going to last a few more hours.

I have to say, the offensive mobile spawns inside an enemy town is too cheesey. The big problem was we had no way of telling that you were “inside” town. In 1.26 I added some code to the cell host which uses the chat grid system classes to create itself a facilities map, and thus a bounding box, for citys. I was planning to try and use that for EWS, overrun and RTB detection, but I think I could also use it for ensuring MSPs are outside the bounding box of an enemy town.

When we first did MSPs, I thought we needed some kind of visual indicator. I think what we need is some kind of visual indicator in the HUD, clickable, that lights up when you can deploy, rather than burying the functionality behind a keypress. With the strat grid, I can afford to do a distance/proximity check on MSP candidates. Grey the button out out of range, red it out when it is not an option, green it when you are in range and viable for an MSP.

12 Comments

MSP’s are fine right where they are. They need to be used in large towns to have any sort of fight that’s worth while. They’re also a destroyable object that can’t sneak around, they represent a safe position where trucks are arriving, and they can only deploy in the part of town that’s already captured. So there aren’t any insta-army issues with them.

Get rid of depot spawning. That’s what’s cheesy.

I was at Oplade last night. Twas fun. I’d forgotten how indestructable Chars can be (and unfortunately how the front side of a 3H is the same way)…Was amusing to watch a number of poorly trained sappers try to destroy me.
Eventually you guys rocked up some 3Hs around the bunker and it was all over.

I have to agree with rdmenace, except for the last bit about depot spawning.

I don’t mean prevent MSPing inside town, what I mean is is being able to spawn without capture inside a town.

There has to be some element of movement of troops or there can never be any concept of front line. Aachen is the sort of town that brings hatred to MSPs because you can coast trucks into town and then park in the many various gaps beteen facility coverage and have an army spawning inside town without breaking the perimeter.

MSP’s as they are and offensive depot spawning both need to go bye bye. Maybe the “cone from the FB extending towards but not all the way to town” form of MSPs wouldn’t be as objectionable. Then MSPs would always be on the FB side of town. Flanking and envelopments would have to actually happen, instead of being manufactured from thin air.

The silly pre-envelopments without transit we’ve had are…well…silly. Gotta have a line. If you want to move through that line, by golly, you should have to move through it. Not magically spawn inside or past it.

Then setting up defensive lines and moving out defensive ATGs and such could matter again.

There’d be a bit more of a comprehensible form to a battle, instead of the chaotic swarming thing we see. Commanders and grunts would actually be able to visualize and direct a fight, instead of just calling for more people to spawn than the other guy has spawning.

The only force that should be just appearing inside a defensive line is paras. As things stand, paras are underutilized because there’s not really a need for them….’cept maybe in the Zees…and then because amphib landings in ww2ol are kind not ready for prime time yet.

Not that none of this has been said before, mind you.

…@/

I lub you snail.

MSPs are a god-send to this game. Go play a Beta without them and remember what it took. It took: Squads.

For better or worse, Squads (clans / guilds etc.) were squashed in earlier versions and jammed into the Brigades/Corps we have today. It was predicted to be a pop-killer, and over time, it became so.

MSPs are hated because they are the last remaining vestige of “Squad” based tactics. Even now, the last remaining squads use TeamSpeak and an MSP to connect to battle. It some cases, it may be an armor squad, but MSPs is the closest you get, and it usually has Squad armor armor around it, or a lone-wolf who happens to help out.

MSPs also have a solo player component. I see many well placed MSPs by n00bs/unknown (unaffiliated) players not being utilized. ADMIT IT: When faced with a brigade-based list of missions, and *not knowing* the location at the mission choosing screen of the locations of the MSP – you choose someone you know and trust and spawn there.

MSP, or Mission based spawns ( or mission leader spawns) need to help an Attacker to know where to go, AND to help a defender know his sector is open to enemy spawning. How? Offensive spawning in the area disabled, or a warning sign at the mission screen, or something…

But stop trying to kill Squads. You want more players? Get the power into the Squads to spawn where the Squads are, to know that the Mission Leader is in their squad.

Change names of brigades/corps or whatever, but get the players talking to one another inside and outside of game, in a group that promotes them playing the game.

Conclusion: MSPs/ML Spawns are Squads.

Now go make money with that. Because it is the heart of MMPOLG in my long experience…and probably yours.

Hehe. I just said pretty much the same thing regarding a front line internally yesterday, Snail. :)

Seems the “front line” could be done with the current features in the game. I believe this has been discussed before, but, an MSP must be in range of a spawnable AB, FB or other MSP. So, if you want to spawn on the other side of town from the FB, there has to be a chain of MSPs. If one is destroyed, and there is a gap in the chain, the unlinked MSPs become unspawnable.

lol this whole squad killing thing is ridicolous.

People have talked before about an “offside” rule for MSP deployment. One way it might work:

-Draw a line between the fb and the closest enemy facility.
-Draw a line perpendicular to the above line, throught the enemy facility to form a “T”
-Allow deployment of an MSP only within the T, and observing the existing min/max distance rules to that and any other enemy facility
(I’m sure KFS would have an easier way to do this)

While this would prevent infantry from appearing on the flank or rear of the enemy formation, we still have the problem of tanks easily doing an end-run and spawn camping a depot from behind (although you have to wonder how long they would last there without infantry protection from a close by msp)

What we still really need is an area based capture system…..

Trout

I like how after all these years and all the preoccupation with “historical accuracy” you still haven’t fixed all the errors in town names. ;)

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