1.27 Open Beta

/smack self for not taking screenshots or anything yet. I’ve been having too much fun. 1.27 started its open beta phase today, responses so far have been pretty sweet.

Mortars continue to win me over: Snail put an MSP up in a church at Roermond, which the enemy immediately started firing on. 2 enemy mortars with a supply truck keeping them loaded. My first reaction is what most of us do when we’re getting screen shake from enemy fire. Ignore it. I tried to lay down and spot them, but the disruption of the incoming rounds, even tho they weren’t hurting me, made it virtually impossible.

Fine – a bit of shaking, who cares. I stood up and had on single frame of this small, bomb-like thing pointing at me and BOOM.

Lucky shot, I respawned. Within a couple of minutes the bodies were piled up like sandbags.

One guy with a mortar is a joke. They are anything but rambo weapons. They’re also limited to 500m which – well its probably a good place to start, but I wonder if they won’t open up to 600 or 750m eventually.

The new effects are pretty cool. Some definitely need tweeks – the old AAA effects were blacker and sootier, the new ones are kinda … cloudy and a little large. Some of the HE effects are a bit on the big side too – although they definitely convey the sense of violence now.

Ironed out several kinks with the strat host earlier today, its running pretty nicely now. OMG, what a retard – I was storing the ResupplyTicket’s in a std::vector<ResupplyTicket>. Each vehicle/sortie had a pointer to its ResupplyTicket in the queue. Oddly enough, as the tickets were consumed by the resupply process, it started finding pointer inconsistencies.

Fallback works but … Hrm. Not happy with it. It’s not per brigade, its per town, and everything in the town has to be able to fallback. The rules are kinda strict though. We either need to add a bunch more feedback messages or we need to strip down the rules. Right now you have to have links for everything to fallback to, and you can’t fallback if you have a DivHQ in the town. Haven’t tested it with air/naval brigades yet.

It doesn’t do anything for you supplywise; its all about opening your FBs. Currently the only way we can do that is by giving the enemy ownership of the ABs. I think we may need to make FBs brigade based instead.

Resupply is unbelievably cool but I think it will probably pour gasoline on the need for armored allied carriers.

Ramp and Granik changed the grenade throw. Seeing quite a few positive comments about it, although I personally made use of the delay – to get my grenade ready for throwing while standing behind a corner; side step; release step back. Now, because I’m a bit crap, I have to start the cycle after stepping out from the corner.

Open Beta is definitely chuggy at the minute, and I can’t tell if that’s debug code or if its something new we’ve done.

I’ve got a few things still to finish up – I still have to do the goddamn, farking RDP stuff. I can’t tell you what a beating that is. Right now RDP lists are put into a spreadsheet which applies the rules and makes sure the new vehicle numbers are acceptable. Then Doc has to re-enter the resulting numbers into a web page.

Gophur wants a web page to replace Excel as the tool and I want to eliminate the human data re-entry step between data validation (Excel) and data acceptance (web page). Maybe I can skip writing the actual input pages/javascript and just give ’em a button to upload a spreadsheet. Right now, I’d give my left nut to have someone to just code the tool page.

Funny seeing people struggle with Brigade = Supply. The testers at Roermond burned thru the mortarmen and were fixing to go to a new town, till someone pointed out you just needed to switch brigade.

That’s another thing I need to look at — if a brigade and its DivHQ are in the same town, there’s currently no way to get at the supply of that DivHQ. On the other hand, if you’re on a mission and you run out of – say – riflemen, and the bde is moved to another town, you’ve immediately got access to the DivHQ supply.

May have to stay that way because we don’t want to make easy div->bde shuffle.

24 Comments

Careful…people get banned for calling KFS a retard.

I’ve noticed the SYSTEM’s Alt-F4 message… interesting!.

“May have to stay that way because we don’t want to make easy div->bde shuffle.”

Can I ask why? I’m fairly certain that resupply kind of represents moving resources from a reserve to the front lines, but why make it more painful than it needs to be by requiring a huge drive on the part of some players to get that done (indeed, I’ve seen several posts hoping that it would be possible for HC to “move” the supply automatically)?
It would require some rebalancing to get working of course (I’m not sure about how much; the enemy has this option too, right?), but really, a lot of what TOEs put into the game will – I’ve already seen ideas where we take an HQ and a division to one of those dual towns like Roermond and pretty much do the exact same thing there, maybe for a weekend op or something. If anything, I think it would be more difficult to balance that out* than just to give up and make it easier for everyone to resupply.

*Beyond the fairly sever localized disruption with infantry included in resupply (which is both somewhat fair and kind of the point), you also have the fact that French Divisions are barred from doing it since they all have two-brig setups, while the idea is to take the HQ and one brig back from a three-brig division, leaving the other two at the front.

Simple question:
Can’t you give the possibility to spawn from a division like from a brigade? So you choose the division, select division, create mission and spawn into the world?

So we could also eliminate those missions from the brigades of the division, that are for the division town. Would make more sense and give a better overview.

If you spawn from the division and make RTB to the town, where the division and its brigade are, the material is returned to the division (or simply that brigade/division from which you spawned in that town).

Greetings,
Drave

Drave has agood idea. The HQ for the purpose of supply IS a brigade, so why not treat it as such.

Resupply trucks rock, heck I can even resupply my fairmile! :-)

Oli, you are correct about some of the HE effects being a bit too big. Try shooting the fairmiles duel 20mm at something! ;-)

Overall 1.27 Rocks!

Love the mortars. 2-4 mortars + supply truck = much fun. Making the rounds STOs was the icing on the cake. Testing them offline I was worried the dispersion was a bit high, but online with a squaddie on TS spawned in at the enemy FB revealed that we actually needed to spread the shots around.

It’s good that the active range for resupply from a truck is very short – finding that truck is often going to be the only way to stop a mortar team.

I would love to see longer ranges, but I can also see lots of potential trouble. They’re going to be an effective AB and FB suppression tool.

Platoon mortars (50mm/2inch) were limited in Range to only about 500m so I don’t see opening up the range to 600m-750m as being realistic.

Its curious, too, that you point out that these mortars are not all that effective solo and that you need to use them in groups. Curious because back in the day there were only used solo. A single Mortar Section with but one Mortar was attached to the Platoon HQ. And as a solitary Mortar, they proved to be rather ineffective vs. their intended targets: fixed fortified positions such as Machinegun nests and bridging the gap between effective Grenade range and safe Artillery support range…which is why the Germans removed them from service by 1942 and replaced them with a far more versitile Rifle Grenade in each squad and why the Brits ended up mainly relying on their 2 incher to lay down smoke.

It wasn’t until you got up to 60mm…like the the US 60mm mortar, with a range of nearly 2000m and organized into 3-tube Mortar Sections, before Mortars really came into their own.

Like pretty much everyone else, I too am excited for Light Mortars, but there is a downside to all this too. What we’re missing out on is the low-level organizations and how those differences effected the way each nation fought. And using Platoon Mortars, en-masse, will be one of the more blatantly ahistorical usage of a weapon system we’ll have ingame.

You know, at this point every time someone says “ahistorical” wrt WWIIOL I just grind my teeth together. I’m sure “…one of the more blatantly ahistorical usage[sic] of a weapon system” is an accurate statement given, oh I dunno, maybe every single infantry unit in the game.

Just to clarify, in case a Rat or fanboi thereof take that the wrong way – I’m specifically criticising player behaviour wrt units, not anything to do with the modelling/simulations of the units themselves.

DivHQs were NOT Frontline Combat organizations…that’s what it had Brigades for. DivHQs were SUPPORT organizations. Supply came from the DivHQ. Artillery fire came from the DivHQ. Major repair work was done at the DivHQ. The Hospital was located at the DivHQ. And, replacement Equipment and Personnel were held at the DivHQ until what time it was needed by the Brigades (ie, we should be allowed to ‘Overstock’ the DivHQ because it was ‘designed’ to do just that…but we should NOT be allowed to ‘Overstock’ the Brigades because they were not).

Supply coming from the limited DivHQ stockpile should come fairly quickly (compared to the 3 hours we got now) but supply coming from the CorpsHQs stockpile should take longer…and longer still coming from the Factories to the CorpsHQs and ITS stockpile. Just a thought.

kfs1 wrote:
That’s another thing I need to look at — if a brigade and its DivHQ are in the same town, there’s currently no way to get at the supply of that DivHQ. On the other hand, if you’re on a mission and you run out of – say – riflemen, and the bde is moved to another town, you’ve immediately got access to the DivHQ supply.

May have to stay that way because we don’t want to make easy div->bde shuffle.

The key word here is “easy”. We explicitly want to stop you overstocking a bde from a div hq without any travel. That’s “shuffle”.

Yes, it’d be nice if you could spawn from either if you have both in the same town, but that’s a major piece of UI overhaul.

1.27 looks great so far. can’t wait.

Sounds like 1.27 will add more choices which always improves gameplay. I hope to see it by my birthday.

KFS,

I think I have an idea that would be a good alternative to overstocking that could also create other cool gameplay:

Manned convoys of resupply trucks.

Basically, you can drive a truck from the AB of the DivHQ to the AB of your brigade, deploy as a supply truck in the AB area and as long as its deployed the resupply rate is sped up to that brigade. This would make for great “save this town” moments, which the enemy could see and interdict.

Rules ideas:

-To incentivize actual convoys, the more trucks you get into the AB at once the faster you can make the resupply.

-to allow multiple resupply trucks at once they all must arrive within X amount of time from the arrival of the first. (this would make players more likely to not drive one truck at a time)

-have a limit of how many trucks can do this

-resupply trucks, like UMS’s, can be killed with a rifle

This would be GREAT for bringing in more supply after winning a battle. I think that the other side would come to expect it as well and that would make for some sweet ground targets for air.

Thoughts?

I think it would drive the “anti-teleport” camp completely rabid while failing to be representative enough to stop the opposite camp asking “why the hell do you make us do this?”

Why does the DIV even have spawnable supply? It should just fill the resupply tickets. If it’s there for coverage, just add another brigade to the division. To aviod confusion, give it a different identifier on the map than brigade flags.

Curious about your comments about 1.27 chugging as my FPS is up in the beta version, despite having all the shader effects turned on that I don’t have enabled in the current live version.

It really is much improved.

DivHQ should have a spawn list…just one that is markedly different than the Brigade’s it supports. Not so much with the (Light or Medium) Mortars, LMGs, Sniper Rifles, SMGs, ATRs or AFVs in general. Mostly a butt-load of Rifles (every cook, clerk, mechanic and truckdriver should be able to fight if the DivHQ is threatened) as well as the Divisional Artillery and Recon elements (unless they’ve been attached to one of the Division’s Brigades). Not to mention its AAA and ATGs battalions/regiments as well as combat units unique to the DivHQ. Something that should reflect that something around half of a Divisions personnel belong to the DivHQ.

Wireded, same here. Better fps with all the bells and whistles turned on.

It gets chuggy when flying around eindhoven or roermond, dont know if it is the ai or presence of enemy units. The stutters are less intensive when flying alone aorund an enemy airfield though.

Maybe its to many stos flying around, stop mortaring … :)

Oli, do you need some player submitted ideas?

It sounds like you could have a situation where where supply runs out in each brigade within a division, and a squad chooses to resupply from HQ rather than move everyone to a different Div.

When a squad (or group of squads) spend an extended period resupplying, you end up with people who are doing it as a chore and due to social pressure. THis = bad gameplay

Trout

Ah….for fancy AI interdictable resupply convoys that follow a human on a resupply run……

“I wonder if they won’t open up to 600 or 750m eventually.”

Eventually, if/when nationally specific weapon characteristics are modeled, the Brit and German weapons will already be at their maximum range. Some data indicates that the French mortar could reach out to 600+ meters using the light Brandt ammo, but the historical weapon itself is verified to have been calibrated only out to 475 meters and other sources cite that as the max range, so it’s doubtful that that weapon will have its range increased either.

My guess is that longer ranges won’t be appropriate until a future tier of heavier weapons.

Gophur wants a web page to replace Excel as the tool and I want to eliminate the human data re-entry step between data validation (Excel) and data acceptance (web page). Maybe I can skip writing the actual input pages/javascript and just give ‘em a button to upload a spreadsheet. Right now, I’d give my left nut to have someone to just code the tool page.

We’ve done something like that, as there are some Java libraries to read Excel files (POI) so you would “just” need to provide an upload page using a FILE input field and then process it afterwards with such a library and then provide some useful error messages in case something goes wrong :).

Depending on the complexity of the rules, coding it straight in JavaScript/HTML might not be a bad idea.

I have no use for an extra nut ;), I keep both of mine, but I do web development in Java for a living, and I would be happy to be of help, if I can. You’ve got my addy in case I could give you a small hand, even if it is simply taling about what we’ve done before so you skip chasing a couple of dead ends.

Salute!

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