XP or Vista?

After a few near-miss lightning strikes, Windows XP decided that I have 2.2Gb of registry.

So I broke out my installer CD/DVDs. I was tempted to maybe install Vista with enough space for XP dual boot… Then I remembered the 2009 Rumor.

Nope. XP for me, thanks. The Vista DVD is unopened, it was a gift. I’d really like to return it to MS and ask for a downgrade to XP, just to make the point. Gonna investigate the possibility.

Cries of “Microsoft hater” will fall on deaf ears: I’m a Linux guy who chooses to run XP as my desktop, laptop and home OS. Vista puts me a step closer to buying a Mac or putting one of these new fangled Linux distros on my desktop – I was able to run my Windows XP install under VMWare via Ubuntu “Live” CD (no installation) when I couldn’t get XP to boot at first back there.

17 Comments

FWIW, I love Vista. Works great for me. Stable as a rock, however I had a few compatability issues when it was first launched. For instance, I had an older (but decent) soundcard–Turtle Beach’s Santa Cruz. The origninal Turtle Beach was bought out and the new owners decided that they would discontinue driver support past XP. This was decided long before the Longhorn beta. So I thought, hey it’s old, why not get a newer Sound Blaster. I made the plunge, bought a Creative X-Fi Extreme Gamer Pro Fatality edition. The website claimed (at the time) Vista compatable. Well it wasn’t until last week that they had a driver that ‘somewhat’ worked well. Some of the beta drivers worked, but I had crashes in various games, and I suspect it was all the sound driver.

Vid drivers for my nvidia 6800 ultra were causing me fits initially with WW2OL. But those got worked out, and they keep pumping out new driver versions that fix more and more bugs.

After all the driver issues, I’ve got to say that I’m at least as stable as before, and my overall performance has actually increased. I suspect that was because my XP install was quite old and bloated like the old win98 used to get. The Vista version I use is Vista Business. So yeah there could have been some better driver support, or redress the HLA schema, but overall I don’t see either of these as unsurmountable obstacles.

I like the features–there are a *lot* of cool things that people pay good money for 3rd party apps (back up anyone?). The aero interface is nice, and it’s seamless connectivity to my XBox360 is cool for pulling music off my computer to play over my home theatre system. I even put together a slide show of pictures of my son to show my mom, did a little movie in Windows Movie Maker for her too. I also like the speedboost thing I do with my old 1GB flash drive. It’s not much, but it gives me a few points on the performance scale, which is needed in my aging computer.

So while it might not suit everyone’s taste, it’s definately impressed me.

Do you see the monkey playing cymbals?

Until Vista allows my sound card to use it’s CMSS, I refuse to use it.

I did not spend all that money to have my sound card turned into a SB16

I know all about Alchemy, but that problem, combined with the compatibility issues, has caused me to swear of Vista for the foreseeable future.

I have a copy of Vista that I have installed twice, and each time I either ran into driver issues, or program issues, which has caused me to uninstall it before the night was done.

I dunno – Vista just seems to represent everything I dislike about Linux and the old Mac OS combined together – bloat and over-control. I’ve frequently chosen Windows over Linux as a desktop PC because it was simple and to the point.

You mentioned Xbox interoperability – the fact that’s even noteworthy is exactly what bothers me. Microsoft has always sucked at interoperability, that’s usually been where the bulk of their defection leakage is.

That’s why DRM and TC is so perfectly in line with their world vision: they can lock out those annoying competitors by finding a way to declare them “untrustworthy”.

Open Standards and the Internet are in the best interests of Microsoft – Bill Gates got to understanding that, but Microsoft doesn’t see it. What is in their best interests is making you pay them for the capability of connecting to another app or device.

The Internet is doing a great job of building up a connectivity-dependency. Think of the Internet as that “free sample”. Now the world is hooked, its time for them to step in and declare that having a NIC or an IP connection is a DRM violation, and you need to use a Microsoft certified driver and device to exchange information with another application. Both of which will, au naturel, be available for a small license fee.

MS is no different than playnet/crs–they want people to pay for those 1’s and 0’s. Right now (and for the forseable future) they are in control.

Yes, I drank the koolaid. No, I don’t think you are a MS hater. You just haven’t drank as much as I have.

My liver!

ps.

Resistance is futile!

Add: They are no different than Kingfisher Software either :)

Those are two startlingly disfunctional analogies. Playnet is selling you what it sold out to sell you; we don’t try to make your purchase of our product control your subsequent purchases or exclude you from consuming competitors content, or indeed from competing with us.

I don’t take issue with Microsoft’s development of proprietary protocols and infrastructure for their software applications. That’s their perogative, and in a fair market, it would be their undoing because their interoperability has always been third rate at best. I’m not talking about WinMac or WinUnix I’m talking about MS App MS App, Win BoxWin Box.

Think about it – Microsoft are an operating system developer; operating systems are traditionally enabling platforms. Windows XP is largely that.

3rd party applications and developers are what made Windows the 97% market shareholder. Microsoft have made a huge business of 3rd party development but because of their expansion into software development, they have a conflict of interest with every single one of their developer-customers.

I don’t have a problem – at all – with Microsoft making Microsoft the only people who can interop with the Xbox 360. That’s an end product – fair enough – but if I wanted an operating system that decided my hardware for me, I’d have gone Apple. Choosing what software I could run was what kept people running Windows through the bad times, because the choices were there for Windows.

The real issue I take is with the whole DRM/TC stuff, which is giving Microsoft control over who can innovate – by creating an initial infrastructure to buy into that precludes innovators and entrepreneurs. They’re turning Windows-related development into an old boys club. They’re casting proprietaryness into hardware – but its all just raqueteering.

The next big step will be, as I said, “Trusted” network controllers. You’ll still be able to use regular TCP/IP and hardware, but in a degraded and limited fashion.

You’ll only be able to get “real” network access by using Microsoft approved (read: licensed) network hardware using Microsoft approved (read: licensed) network drivers and using trusted (read: licensed) software.

And that would be fine – if it wasn’t just raqueteering, if it was actually driven by benefit to us as consumers.

If enough people held off buying Vista because of its downgrading of OpenGL, you could bet it SP1 would improve OpenGL support. Every early adoption of Vista puts another tooth in Microsoft’s bite on the 3D industry.

I think taking aim at the network traffic industry has to be a Win9 or Win10 goal for MS.

Any sharable thoughts on the prospects for WWIIOL operability by non-expert customers on a box that didn’t boot a proprietary OS?

We’d quite happily port the game to Linux. Since there is no evidence for a market, we can’t justify spending our shareholder’s money on the port, so the only way it would ever happen would be for someone to step up and invest the port-costs themselves. I’d speculate that it would be an investment with no particular returns.

If you’re talking about running it under Wine, I’ve never tried. I’m quite happy enough with XP.

That might sound odd my previous comments but I think failure to resist Vista might let Microsoft’s demon out of the bottle. Vista, DRM and TC are a slippery slope that the if-it-sells-crush-it half of MS might be unable to resist.

Point(s) taken. Just a thought: a whole slew of “MS” features are actually 3rd party apps the company bought up and rebranded and integrated into the OS. I guess that means MS buys innovation. While some say that may stifle competition with other 3rd party innovaters, it makes me think that maybe if their product was better, then MS would have bought them instead–gives them incentive to innovate to beat MS, only to be bought up when they get somethign better–rinse, repeat..

Other thoughts: You don’t consider modern MS OS’s to serve the same exclusive purpose (enabling platform, to quote you) like DOS 3.0x? I think they dropped that idea about the time of Win98 really. They tried their hand at software dev and subsequently sucked at stuff they didn’t know about. Glad they gave up gaming and farmed it out. However, I always (and still do) swear by their branded hardware…joysticks, keyboards, mice.

I don’t think I know of anything they’ve created outside the core OS functions. Even then to me the user who’s old enough to remember both worlds, the core OS functions are just GUI dressed up versions of old DOS 5.1.

I *think* the first time they ‘innovated by purchase’ was when they paid Symantec for MSAntivirus, around DOS 4.2 or 5.0 or so. MS backup about the same time, scandisk…not sure if they wrote that…I thought that might be the company who wrote SpinRite back in the day. I’m probably wrong.

I guess that means MS buys innovation.

Well, yes, duh. My continued enjoyment of IE is based on the fact that I know the IE group wasn’t started the traditional MS way.

Before Netscape was “NCSA Mosaic”. Some of the NCSA guys realized “we could make money out of this” and built a commercial version of the browser and got very little interest. So they came up with the “free except commercially” model and so began Netscape. I remember all the conspiracy worries that when NCSA finally choked and became obsolete, Netscape wouldn’t need to be so generous – and there were signs of that looming at one point.

Microsoft chipped in with IE – which sucked nads. MSIE was awful.

Netscape looked across at Microsoft in the OS/office-app sector and wanted that pie in the Internet sector. I don’t mind someone wanting that, but I disliked them doing it hipocritically. And that aspect of Marcus Andreesen manifested early. (I know several people who went to NS who told me I was fairly spot on when they left, disenchanted – but, disenchanted employee grumbling caveat duly noted).

When Netscape started trying to be the big boy on the block of the whole HTTP/HTML/etc scene, the NCSA Mosaic guys approached Microsoft and brokered a deal whereby their browser code would replace shitty MSIE and create what the NCSA guys had started out trying to create – a wholesome, free, openstandards based browser. Heck they even managed to get a Mac version of it for a while and there was ever so briefly a Slowlaris version.

The periphery of the deal may have died off, but fact is the “bullying” Microsoft did back then was largely pro-standards. I *always* gotta mention <blink> – just the most notable of the things NS tried to really push thru; and “layers” instead of real DHTML.

None of it forgives Microsoft, but in a field of feces throwing, thanks to the NCSA guys, MS was comparatively angelic compared to NS.

Which is why I find Firefox – and the subtle notes of avenging the MS-slaying of Netscape that plays through its dev team – unpalatable. It’s not something I want any part of avenging.

I harp about this particular thing often – because I think when you see why I dislike Netscape, my “Microsoft mood swings” of tolerance/disgust might slew into a more meaningful perspective.

Yes, Microsoft have made some good quality aquisitions. Hey, I’ve been told I played some small part in ShadowFactor’s decision to take BattleField Communicator to Microsoft. I’ve also heard that Microsoft’s interest in them was actually in Paul (noose)’s DirectX talents.

There’s a dim and disreputable mythos that Microsoft’s aquisition-based innovation goes back to the original aquisition of MS-DOS. I think they’d bought other stuff before the Symantec buy — and wasn’t that their defrag program you’re thinking of?

I have this vivid recollection of an informal meeting with Cliff at Demon, in the programming area on the 5th floor outside on a nice sunny day, discussing the possibility of our buying a Windows TCP/IP stack and software suite to bolster our DOS-based KA9Q app and give our service an advantage over the growing number of other small ISPs.

I urged strongly to try for Trumpet and Cliff was pleased with himself because he’d already talked (or met?) with them. He’d played it coy, fishing for a good deal, and our other option was Turnpike which had a mailer he liked.

I think he was talking to people to see if Trumpet was worth being more aggressive with, having heard they had another interested party. I didn’t have any kind of convincing argument for Trumpet, just a good vibe for it.

Our offer can’t have compared with Microsoft’s – unsurprisingly ;)

My money was on Trumpet, but he was also considering Turnpike because he liked their mail app better. I don’t think his cautious offer or style did much.

I use vista and love it

Don’t confuse driver problems with operating system bugs

I laughed out loud @ “Slowlaris”. /snicker

@ Tony F:

No I don’t confuse the two. I think most of the driver issues is with how the various hardware manu’s deal with Vista’s hardware abstraction layer (in the case of sound, there is no layer).

Getting sound working correctly under Vista is just a nightmare. Nothing more, nothing less.

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