Cheaters spoil everyones’ day, but what really sucks is when you wind up having to ban a secondary casualty. This weekend’s ban list included a player who ought to have known better – and I don’t say that diminutively, this could be me – or you. Put the pwnage axe down a minute as you read this.

 2 – A lot of us got XXXXed by this, but we didn’t know his name. Someone in the target channel mentioned that it MIGHT be hacker because they saw him doing this before.

 5 – Later, I see KFS1 in game and ask him if anything was done about the speedhacker. He says he can’t discuss it. I figure this means he knows about it and something was done.

Actually, I said

chat_host.0.log:I [Mon 11/12 20:47.10.650 chatDotCommand.cpp:379] t:#### p:#### c:KFS1 /say We do not discuss speedhackers or cheaters whether under investigation or suspended ;) [buzzard, GM mode, near Antwerp]

Yes – we keep logs of our staff/GM’s conversations (“call may be monitored”). Back to the original author

 6 – A COUPLE OF DAYS LATER I SEE THE SPEEDHACKER IN GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The speedhacker. Who’s name he didn’t know. Or maybe he saw hacker that he had been told was the speedhacker? Score one for player paranoia to whomever “spread the word” about hacker being a hacker.

 7 – I happened to see KFS1 in game again and asked him about it, he said NOTHING to me about it … wouldn’t even reply.

Well, that I don’t recall, it was probably when he was venting his spleen on the Help channel and I put him on /ignore. I’m not a people person, I’m not a support person, and sometimes I have to nip myself in the bud. Or maybe he’s another of these folks who seems to think jizzyjaz is my alternate account, bleah.


Well, what that earns you is the discovery that we take cheating of any kind rather seriously. You did more of the same because you were pissed? Guess what, 9 out of 10 guys we ban for cheating make the same claim.

Ever since attending Damion Schubert‘s Casino Talk at AGDC, we’ve effected Casino Rules in regards to people who try/do cheat or hack: permanent ban for yourself and any accounts you appear to be using or subsequently use. Damion only briefly touched on cheating but it was a light-bulb moment for all of the Rats present. Oh, it was also Damion’s first meeting with Doc (that’s right, Damion’s talk was his first meeting with Doc, those of you who know Doc can put that picture together for yourself; Damion, “Haaw doo ya k’now thair cheetin’?”, aka the guy that uses finger jabs to the upper torso as a means to distract you from how loud he is).

However – we also retain our firm lid on any kind of discussion of cheating or investigations of cheating. I’m making a slight exception here because (a) I can understand how the guy could be lead to do what he did because I’ll bet none of his squad mates would ever in a million years believe us if we told them he was banned for griefing, (b) he appears to believe that we should discuss these issues with other people.

I’ll give you some context here, which I think will turn on a light bulb for many of you who question this decision. This player’s original inquiry about hacker was the first thing out of his chatbar when he saw me floating over him with a buzzard. Now I do, from time to time, hover over people I know or active combat areas with my GM vehicle visible. When I’m working, say, observing suspicious behavior.

Let me let you in on a little trend I’ve observed in “bad behavior” generally, irregardless of the game. Cheaters are a lot like snipers, they like to have a spotter. That might be a second account or it might be a buddy.

This counter-intuitive ‘teaming up’ will sometimes come from a hero complex – they’re righting wrongs, they find a hole and they decide to arm themselves with the ability for when they decide they/their social group/team is being wronged; so they disclose their powers to someone else to “keep me in check” (or to vouch for them in-case they get caught).

Sometimes it comes from an ego complex – box game culture has embraced the term “cheat” as “levelling the playing field”.

Sometimes its a simple binary pair – neither of them set out to cheat but some incidental or casual conversation gave them both this idea, and they checked it out. Convinced other people do it they decide to add it to their arsenals and quietly slip into playing lookout, wheel or patsy to one another. Although this kind of casual eureka tends to produce people who avoid directly knowing what the other is up to; so the one might enquire after the other so as to provide a future cover “researching” cover story if they get caught.

Sounding paranoid to you? Good. Because the first requirement of any good security is an unhealthy dose of suspicion. Something that players shouldn’t be embracing – adding one more reason to the long, long list of why you don’t discuss it with your players: we’re not the only ones with that policy.

Fair warning: I will be moderating comments to this post. I am leaving comments open for discussion of liaison, but will apply my personal whim as to what I consider to be “discussion of cheating”.


I really wish that more people would realize just how much one idiot can ruin an experience for so many. Zero tolerance is really the only way.

Hi my name is Oliver “kfs2” smith

i have a pink ipod


I wouldn’t call that a secondary casualty Olly. I’d call that natural selection.

I might have to pop back into the game one of these days and see how things have changed. From the blogs and production vids I’ve seen it sounds like some interesting progress.

It’s da bomb! (if you don’t get bombed!)

re: cheating–burn them. If they make me have a bad time by way of cheating and get caught, they have robbed me of the experience I pay for every month. In fact, have Toto/Granik make a wall of shame for their game name to be displayed in every bunker texture.

Been here since ‘o1 I might add….I wonder if any cheaters have killed me since the start?

I think posts like this, and other helpful, educational events – are just what the doctor ordered. Wiki + FAC + Sticky posts.

SOMETHING to feed the monster and give fairly honest yet short fused people a chance to recover.


Personally I agree with Easting – I think you should have a wall of shame (although on the website rather than in-game) but I can see reasonable arguments for not wanting to do this (eg say 3 cheaters banned in a short period of time all happen to mainly play axis, “OMG CRS ARE ALLIED BIASED!”, nerdfury melts down the forums)

No, be cheater biased. I don’t care if they play on my side, winning fairly makes victory that much sweeter.

That doesn’t sound right: I do care if they play on my side–I don’t want them to be able to play at all.

It’s all judgment calls.

kfs1 edit


this screams “suck less pwn more” but maybe i’m an elitist fuck?

Breed: Caution dictates not outlining them so clearly ;)

Totally understand.

That would be the way I would break it down though.

There is hacking, then there is exploiting due to flaws in the game. Every game as flaws, they are coded by people.

Look at WOW and what they are doing to protect their game. Then again they have 8mil+ subscribers or something like that.

The actions taken above by Mr X should not have been done. As always if you are offended and don’t think something is being done. Un-sub. Dollars speak louder than words.

Whether you hack, cheat or merely exploit, your expectation should be that you have left our target audience and that we will execute, with prejudice, our right not to preclude you from additional custom.

If we deem your action as hacking or cheating, there’s no judgement to be made. If we deem it as an exploit then our response may be more measured.

Where is really gets interesting is when you leave the “european” value system and deal with other cultures, who have totally different concepts of what is cheating and what isn’t.

Hacking/cheating are an interesting sidelight to the game vs. simulation player-type division.

For gamers, cheating is moderated by cultural values. Thunder notes that such values vary among cultures; in fact there isn’t even a single “European” value system, as any comparison of queueing behavior among different European countries or different age groups will show.

For simulation participants, OTOH, cheating is anathema to the fundamental experience-desire, i.e. a simulation participant’s experience is degraded by anything that breaks the simulation.

It’s the grey area that I find interesting, clearly speed hacking is so far over it’s not even worth entertaining, but you have grey area that many would not understand.

An example is non clipped terrain, there is terrain in the game that you can walk through as if it doesn’t exist, you can hide just by lying down, there is some in probably every town in the game. Lack of colliders is my guess.

Now does that constitute an unfair advantage? I’ve seen it being used once.

The one that I hate is the under rubble ones, unfortunate, the majority of people know it’s an unfair advantage, still people use it.

Vehicle Spawn blowing with a single Sapper, unfair advantage? Not widely known.

The whole rubble thing (finding onself clipped as a result of a building state change) is gradually being reduced by Granik’s improved buildings.

But the worst thing about it is how we handle it, makes me want to tear hair out watching the GMs spawning a buzzard and then /warning someone to despawn and/or kicking them.

When 1.28 comes out they’ll actually have the ability to bump someone out of the rubble (you get a big red warning message, although I was thinking about announcing it on area chat too). No more warning or kicking, just a stop to your clipping.

For simulation participants, OTOH, cheating is anathema to the fundamental experience-desire, i.e. a simulation participant’s experience is degraded by anything that breaks the simulation.

Not always. I’ve seen simulationists justify cheating because by cheating they were doing something that would have been possible in reality, but some limitation of the game prevented it being done directly or normally. Ends justifying the means, in essence.

as far as being stuck under rubble, it seems to me that so many players know that one & that it can get u banned & new players stuck in rubble are told by thier side to despawn.
So is that even a HUGE issue anymore? I would think not. Glad to hear granik is working on it anyhow.

& when you have ur buzzard out & see me die (which I do alot) no sshots allowed! that is all. ;)

the other night I and another player was in a building. suddenly i could not get out of the doors yet I could shoot out of the door way. Scratching my head I asked the other player who also did no know why we could not get out of the door. Eventually I despawned and saw that the building had collapsed I and the other player had no idea until then. If opposing players had gone by i would have shot at them. Would I and this other player be accused of cheating and banned?? I certainly think any caught delibertly using hacks or cheating should indeed be banned for life but you have to be careful, was it cheating if there was no intent??

Oh and a general comment I really wish people would shut up about CRS being side biased or kits delibertly nerfd by CRS etc. CRS are doing this to make a living (amongst other things) how long do you think their product would survive if they were intentially doing that sort of thing.

As for Speedhacking, and other code exploits, idiots are going to do it. As much as the code may evolve to circumvent these issues, some person with too much time will create a work-around. Kudos to CRS for taking the what I call the “pitch invasion” approach to cheating. Here in Australia if you take to the football or cricket pitch it’s a $5000 fine and lifetime ban, and they make all efforts not to show or communciate to the crowd that such an invasion happened.
Although this approach may not always be perfect in terms of proof, a subjective approach will only result in more discussion and complaint.

Cheating such as speedhacking does not worry me so much becuase realistically given the CRS cheating policy the “risk factor” will hopefully make people less likely to pursue it and the chances of encountering it even less. What concerns me more is the less obvious forms of cheating that occurs and inevitably can impact an experience consequentially rather than directly. For example, people logging in to the other side via second accounts and telling everyone where mobile spawns are, or doing slight things to sabotage the best laid tactical plans of attack. I find such things don’t have you ranting “CHEATER” so much, but strike deeper to undermine the game experience and lead you to think interesting and fun attack plans really aren’t worth the effort and it’s all about numbers and equipment.

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