Unholy cow: Fedora 8 :(

So Killer and I have been working on putting together a Fedora Core 8 based upgrade package for our servers. We started out by doing a minimal Fedora Install from the main distro the plan being to cull the package list and create our own kickstart.

If I didn’t like to keep the language here reasonably clean, it would be so much easier to describe just how abysmal I think Fedora Core 8 is. So I’ll have to make do with: Bloat, on a stick made from a 10-foot wide “toothpick” wrapped in 3 tons of cling film, sealed in a fancy new ziploc bag made of 6 foot thick flastic, refrigerated down to “within 500 degrees of absolute zero” for freshness in a room with 17 superheaters running at full blast.

Fedora fans will tell me that I need the right “spin”. Oh yeah? Would I figure out which that was by using the bloody useless “spins” page? Download ’em randomly and try ’em all till I find one I like?

When you start trying to trim the fat on packages, it is incredibly easy to have yum come back and say “okie doke, want me to rip out half the system including nash, passwd, yum, initscripts, etc?”

Why, for instance, does so much depend on festival: I can’t have a gui package manager without text-to-speech?

Or why must firstboot-tui depend on ipv6libraries and clients? Presumably because as well as allowing you to configure your IPv4 interfaces it wants to ask you about IPv6 support. Guess we have to install IPv6 then, so we can say no.

I was tickled that when we uninstalled Gnome, it uninstalls the GConf2 package first leaving it subsequently unable to unregister all of the other gnome packages properly generating warning after warning after warning :)

There are some fairly obvious signs that the Fedora Team has quit bothering to try and track dependencies and seems to have decided that more packages = better.

To be honest, Fedora feels like it is in free-fall.

Of course, it shouldn’t be too big of a deal to change distro, since we really do use a very minimal install. We stripped Fedora 8 down to about 280 packages – we ripped out all the gnome, X-windows and sound libraries, the httpd we had explicitly asked it not to install, the java we had asked it not to install, lots of libraries we couldn’t seem to figure out why there were installed (libmusicbrainz?). In the end we seem to have an awful lot of clutter – particularly python and python related cruft, but the python dependency lists seem to be the worst mess of all and we got tired of trying to pick out what bits we could safely remove.


Just change to FreeBSD… Much more stable, especially under heavy load..

Changing distros is one thing, changing O/S is quite another.

But, but, but it’s all free. Don’t you want all of that Free stuff?

That’s when you switch to Redhat or some other commercial distro. The server install is very basic, none of the bloat of stuff that they are testing to see what is used.

I would guess Python to be hard to get rid of in Fedora – isn’t Python required by yum and perhaps other system tools too?

What scking said. :)

Be happy its not gentoo, you still would be compiling. OTOH you could compete in the “who has the longest use flags” threads.

I heard Ubuntu server is a good choice.

If you are looking for a “free” version of Redhat then Fedora is the wrong choice. Fedora is basically a gigantic beta test for Redhat.

CentOS is probably what you want. It’s the same packages, compiled from Redhat source, as Redhat ES without the price tag and It is fully compatible with Redhat ES.

I’m an old-school FreeBSD guy. FreeBSD is definitely not what we need for running the WWIIOL servers.

At one point we were torn between Gentoo, Ubuntu and Fedora, we went with Fedora because we had been using Redhat before that.

It actually doesn’t matter a whole deal which distro we go with, we strip out so much and put in so many custom modules… The only thing it actually affects is me – I have a Windows box as my main workstation and a Linux box for deving on, which is generally more convenient if its based on the same distro we used.

Just curious, why wouldn’t FreeBSD work?

A number of applications we use don’t support FreeBSD, which means porting them (since running them thru the compat layers incurs too large an overhead for our usage); the scheduler and threading, although better than they used to be, just don’t cut it for our needs.

Or – to put it the way I see it – our applications have been developed to a close affinity for Linux which makes them unfortunately ill-suited to FreeBSD.

anytime linux gets mentioned anywhere on the net there are always at least 2 tossers that throw out BSD. for pete’s sake you guys lost, badly. but BSD is better … ok pumkpin we believe you. maybe if your core developers weren’t all raving lunatics BSD may have gone somewhere. BSD is an also ran, nay, it is a never ran and highly irrelevant IMO. the ports tree was way ahead of its time i will give BSD that much. Maybe I am just jaded because BSD people can’t stfu. In any linux related discussion anywhere they pop up “hey look at me i’m cool too guys”. yea, w/e dude you weren’t invited to the party go away.

real men run slackware anyway ;).

I thought real men…pink nail polish…you know…ah!

Typical ignorant linux git. No :)

Or you could always go for CentOs. Have tried it several times. Does not go well under (wmware)ESX though. Probably because of the old packages.

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