Enemy Spawn!

Something that periodically gets around the office and forums is the problem where infantry get into each other’s spawns. It is one of those divisive issues where people have a full spectrum of distinct and often insular opinions. Some write it off under the “AFILAW” rule (All’s Fair in Love and War). Others see it as cheating and get quite agitated about it…

This has come up a few times at the office lately and we were considering some options from the draconian (kill ’em) to the messy (complex rules) to the unfortunate (remodel the buildings so you can’t enter themat all from outside).

I took a step back and tried to look at it from some fresh perspectives. It needs: 1. to be simple, 2. clear feedback, 3. to make deliberate entry pointless.

I don’t like ideas that stop you entering the buildings: There are legitimate reasons, from landing on them as a para to ducking behind thru the doorway to avoid a bomb/enemy tank; I don’t like one-way doors because that would nix the use of the roofs; I think killing you instantly, or after a timer, for being in a building is overly harsh.

My preferred solution went thru a few iterations: In short, automatic gun-jam while you are in an enemy spawnable (vehicle and boat spawns not included), a buzzer sound and a red warning from the alert system that repeats every few seconds. We were going to have some kind of timer (Enemy spawnable! 10 seconds to leave!) but that just seemed messy; or a penalty if you stayed for too long (forced kia).

All unnecessary. If you can’t kill people from inside an enemy spawnable, you aren’t going to want to stay. And if you do, well you can’t do any harm so there’s no reason to slap you any further.

It was pretty easy to implement, about 15 minutes on a break, and it means production have something to toy with next time the issue comes up. It is, of course, on a switch which is off by default.

Of course, there are other solutions but the few good ones (like closing a spawn when an enemy is inside it) are predicated on fairly major jobs of work (let you spawn in a different building).

19 Comments

what about the ‘old’ solution we used to have where INF were invulnerable for about 10 seconds after spawn. This allowed the opposing players to ‘draw’ on the screen and gave you a chance – a chance, mind you – to kill him.

Even now, veterans enjoy capping a building and spawning into it and firing out the windows to defend the depot. Shall that method die due to some minority? Even if a majority *hate* depot enemies, just close the windows so depot monkeys have to leave the buildings – that plus 10 seconds makes it all moot and drives the gameplay out of the building…which is what your solution would do imho.

I hate cheaters, but it is a thrill to be in a depot the enemy didn’t bother to clear and to pop up and hand back some vengeance after a vicious camp.

all imho, of course.

The gun jaming is good, but will the knife still be deadly in the spawn? knifes only in the spawn will give a fighting chance for both sides. ( a good knife fight can get the heart pumping or not).

So in other words, enemy infantry cannot shoot inside enemy spawn buildings? That includes the ground floor I presume…which would be annoying. The only problem is the 1st and 2nd floors, not the ground floor as such. If it could be limited to not apply to the ground floor, that’s the perfect solution, otherwise, not so good.

Also do Hangers in Airfields count?

The 10 second invulnerability was bad: you could run out, and kill all table defenders before it wore off.

Wohoo more silly rules to gap the crevasses of the silly spawn/capture system!

I can see it now

*BLIPP”
“You’re in a enemy spawn area, your gun jammed! lolz!”

Or is it another rule you have to read the forum in order to understand?

Hell why not introduce a wizard class while you’re at it, 1 kill equals 20 mana, it takes 30 mana to add even more fog for the enemies, 60 mana spawns a sofa in a building you can bump into in order to get double helmet armor.

I could give a ratz-azz (pun intended) either way.

The gun jam sounds like a good solution.

Comstar: That’s more of an if question; this is implemented crudely right now as a play test mockup. Like I said, the best solution is that the game spawns you somewhere the enemy isn’t which gives us options: leave as is (worse than any of the solutions) or implement a temporary solution.

Ohm: “gun-jam” is a convenience term; you can’t do any damage to others while you are inside an enemy spawnable.

bar10dr: You think this is worse than the current situation where if people .report you doing it, a GM comes along and demands that you despawn and possibly boots you or drags you out of the building? Get a grip or at the very least advance your reading comprehension skills past grade 1. Enter an enemy spawnable get a loud buzzer sound and big red text telling you exactly what is going on. End of ambiguity.

The alternatives are “magic” solutions like invisible force shields you can’t walk thru (or worse, visible force shields you can’t walk through) – which doesn’t stop the old “wait around to spawn camp” so that gets two strikes, or one way entrances so that if you go out on the roof you can’t get back in again. Or, the classic, tells you that if you don’t leave it’s gonna kill you – so you can still kill people inside as long as you game the timer.

Like I said, for the third time now, the best solution is that the system doesn’t let you spawn infront of the camper. That needs the major work that’s going in with the new engine, so we can’t do that yet.

Feel free to proffer your own solution, if you’re not just sore that your primary source of kills is going away…

I like the redisgn solution, as well as the solution you came up with.

redesign the spawns, allow people to enter, and not let them kill you.

but alas, production can only do so much :-P

/dream off

Yay, we can get the old green barracks back then :)

It’s alright everyone, the euromillions jackpot is mine this friday, so this and other features will be implemented SOON.

I’m an AFILAW guy myself, but I think I like jokers window solution the best. Lateral approach and probably very effective.

No I’m saying its a silly system to begin with, bumping tables and stationary spawns and the rules that comes with that, you can throw as many fixes at it as you want but it won’t change the fundamental problem, it’s a total immersion killer.

It might just be me, but large text popping up hindering my view, telling me I can’t shoot because of silly game mechanics kinda ruins the immersion for me, not to mention the sound that follows it.

Spawning and capture of terrain/cities should be fluid, controlled chaos, not about bumping into tables and creating silly spawn rules in order to continue down a path that will only create more silly rules.

Please don’t take it personal, It’s just my take on it, I know it might not be the common census.

Ok, I apologize for my weak attempt at a dig, bar10dr; but as I said, we’re trying to add something with the lightest possible footprint. This concept has the benefit of being the simplest and lightest weight and it doesn’t require artificially changing the game world.

I think unenterable buildings would be far more immersion killing than buildings I choose not to enter.

Until we can make it that occupation is capture, we have to work with what we have, but we are intent on making the system such that you can’t camp the enemy because he can’t spawn where you are… There’s a hell of a lot that has to go before that for it not just to be a terrible system, e.g. dynamic or mobile FBs, etc, etc.

KFS – how would you system handle a person spawned into their own depot when ownership switches? Sometimes the best cover for recapping a depot is the LMG already spawned in the depot covering the door.

If i understand correctly, when the depot switched hands, all those inside it will no longer ba able to damage anyone until they leave – so those trying to suppress them have the advantage.

Don’t know how it’s be without playtesting it out, but just curious.

That being said, if I had to choose between your solution and none at all right now, I’d be leaning towards yours.

Aye, the rule is simply “are you inside” at the moment. It could allow a grace period between capture and when the depot finally opens (which is when the table would appear).

Ahh, thanks for the clarification.

Now I just need work to give the time to start playing again.

How about the semi translucent red screen haze or just the constant mortar effect jarring your character until you leave the building. This along with the Heart pumping sound effect your only sound.

Just make it unpleasant enough, and very difficult for them to stay alive.

That’s one way to achieve the same effect, but you’d make navigating the depot very difficult :)

I believe in negative re-enforcement. It raises the risk and lowers the reward of camping a spawn from the inside. You just might stop going into the depots to avoid the effects. Unless your into that kind of thing. ;) or have a death wish

You could also limit the effect to only when missions are actually posted for spawning from the Depot.

Something going into the chat bar every 30 seconds might help too.

Getting complicated again :)

Tatonka raised a valid point in the forum discussion, “what if I’m shooting at people outside”.

Again, this was just a “concept sandbox” addition that I spent no real time developing (I was eating a cookie while I wrote it) :)

Yeah, Tatonka’s point was my worry as well with the LMG example above.

I occasionally have found myself sniping from the 3rd floor when a depot has changed hands and was not cleared. I make it a point not to approach the spawns, but anything outside is fair game.

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